March 26, 2015

Capital Weapon Musings

I remember being surprised as a newish player looking a dreadnaught killmail and wondering "why no T2 guns?"  In reading Sugar Kyle's blog notes on the Rebalancing Roundtable I was reminded of this and thought "I wonder what those would look like?"  So with full knowledge that I am stepping into an area I know little about (I've shot at dreadnaughts before, but generally don't see them in FW space and cannot fly one) here goes some lunch-time number crunching.

Lets say you pick up a Moros in Pyfa and load three Capital-sized Ion Siege Blaster Cannon Is on it (yes, Meta 0) and three Fed Navy Magstabs, with All-V skills and standard Antimatter (not faction) you get 1248 dps with 12.5 optimal and 31.3 falloff.  Sounds respectable, right?  That's our baseline.

Now let's go pull the information for Large size blasters. By comparing the Ion Blaster Cannon I with the Neutron Blaster Cannon I we can see how much things ramp up by ratio.  Then we compare the Neutron Blaster Cannon I with the T2 and get that ratio as well.  Let's make the naive assumption and apply those ratios back to the Ion Siege Blaster Cannon I to get what a Neutron Siege Blaster Cannon II would look like.  A Moros with these theoretical T2 neutrons would do 1863 dps with 18.0 optimal and 39.13 falloff.  Again this is with standard antimatter.  Nice kick, huh?

ROFDmg ModDPSModOptimalFalloff
Large Ion Blaster Cannon I72.9531250.42187558
Large Neutron Blaster Cannon I83.6750.525610
Large Neutron Blaster Cannon II84.410.637.210
Capital Ion Seige Cannon10.637.921.1314285712025
Capital Neutron Seige Cannon I12.148579.8561.4082431.25
Capital Neutron Seige Cannon II12.1485711.82721.689628.831.25

You probably already figured out why I used standard antimatter: it makes it easier to do the conversion over to Void and Null.  Moros with Void: 2422 dps at 13.5 optimal and 19.56 falloff.  Moros with Null: 1708 dps at 25.20 optimal and 54.78 falloff.

Moros w/Capital Ion I (Std AM)1248.0012.5031.30
Moros w/Capital Neutron II (Std AM)1863.6818.0039.13
Moros w/Capital Neutron II (Void)2422.7813.5019.56
Moros w/Capital Neutron II (Null)1708.3725.2054.78

You probably expected the next step: an Erebus.  If a Erebus of similar fit puts out 8982 dps with Capital Ion Is, it puts out 17437 dps with Neutron Siege Blaster Cannon IIs loading Void.  With high-end implants and officer magstabs of course this would be more.

Erebus w/Capital Ion I (Std AM)898212.5031.30
Erebus w/Capital Neutron II (Std AM)13413.1218.0039.13
Erebus w/Capital Neutron II (Void)17437.0613.5019.56
Erebus w/Capital Neutron II (Null)12295.3625.2054.78

A 20k dps Erebus?  Revelations firing Scorch?  Avatars firing Aurora from a pocket of grid stretched off for the specific purpose of anti-capital sniping?

Of course this would also mean new skills to be trained (Capital Hybrid Turret Specialization), new blueprints to be researched, new weapons to be built, new ammo to be churned out.

Too bad the Dreadnaughts are the capital that everyone seems to think are already in a good place, so I guess there isn't much drive for CCP to roll these out.

Edit: In comments below I realized I didn't include rigs.  Also, the Specialization skill up to V would add another 10%


  1. What!?? A Moros gets 1248 dps in the current game? Battleships do better for 20% of the cost... In the case of my cruise Rattlesnake with sentries (and tank - plenty of gankers in Osmon), I get 1400dps. At 50km...

    Why would anybody fly a dread?

    Are these figures indeed correct?

    What am I missing here?

    1. Let's see - to keep things similar let's put a Hyperion up with 6 Neutron Blaster Cannon IIs and 3 MagStabs, using Void, all Vs character: 1127 dps.

      Now I made some limitations on my base Moros to make the scaling up easier. Let's do the same Moros but with Meta Ion Siege Blasters and faction antimatter. That's now 1510 dps.

      I do see I didn't put rigs on my test fittings, so that's be a boost, but that's true for the Hyperion fit I mention there too. With a Collision Accelerator and a Burst Accelerator (which takes all of the calibration) the Moros gets to 1597. Add implants (as you may have in your PVE Rattlesnake) or a fourth MagStab then of course that will go up.

    2. Nah, its still meh. My skills, implants and fit ids not optimised either. Only one implant, only rig affecting damage is a rigor, I could argue that torps would do higher damage... as would other hulls... but all that is moot because (hehe had to do some asking around)...


      Siege makes an enormous difference - T1 siege module providing 700% damage increase, 840% for T2...

      Now I know... ;-)

  2. There are meta variants of XL guns. Try them and see what DPS you get and how that compares with your projected T2 XL DPS

    1. Looks like a 10% boost for Meta2 over Meta0, so not quite as striking as the Meta0 to T2 jump. Until I started playing with this I hadn't noticed that there isn't empire faction XL ammo either, only pirate. Looking at killmails it looks like Guristas is preferred - perhaps because of leet CFC ratters? :)

  3. You forgot about the Dread's high-slot siege module, the Tech 2 version gives a 840% damage multiplier bonus (along with a reduction in tracking, making the dread stationary, unable to receive remote assistance, and a huge buff to self reps, at the cost of stront). Like my Moros can do 15k dps w/ 3 faction mag stabs.

    1. Yes, thanks!!! And thanks for the kind reply - sometimes get snotty replies about being a noob...

    2. I keep forgetting about siege mode, too :)

      Otherwise I was about to have my brain checked, because I was positive that when I was on structure bashes in null that htings went much faster with dreads :)